I'm just a real person, commenting on much I've seen in my real life.

I enjoyed the article about Seizures that may be caused by strobe lights at club parties.

It should be noted that Photo-sensitive Epileptic seizures can also be caused by some types of religious services, including Pentecostal-type Christian church services. These services can also cause seizures with thumpy-thump trick-bass music, and certain types of incense or scented candles.

Church of God in Christ (COGIC),
Assembly of God,
United Pentecostal Church,
White Dove,
many non-demoninationals, etc., all make use of:
strobe lights;
other types of lights (various speeds and colors);
fast, thumpy, jittering or swaying musical rhythms;
fast, thumpy, jittering or swaying body-movement rhythms;
galloping floor pulses, sometimes combined with ultra-slow floor pulses, tricked out as if caused by a strobe-"Sound" machine (whether music-caused, or from a separate vibrating machine);
and/or sometimes scents,
in order to make the congregation ultra, extra excited to bring the people into the "Spirit".

I've visited some types of these services, partly out of curiosity, since I was a teen. Including even an Assembly of God funeral at which people started wiggling and laughing, I assume due to the bright flashing lights and percussion rhythms.

Some charismatic-type services are quieter and milder than others.

As a teen, at a fairly mild United Pentecostal church (where women wear no makeup and never cut their hair), I spoke in "An unknown tongue," which, in my case, turned out to be the Yiddish a relative had spoken when I was a baby. I babbled and trembled for several days after. But I returned to my Baptist church, and cut my hair soon afterward. The girls who'd invited me assumed I was going to Hell.

I was more recently forced by a caregiver to attend a COGIC spirit service with bright strobe lights, painfully thumpy music, and everyone screaming in "Tongues".

Women, men, and children were skipping up to the altar, hugging each other, jumping up and down, screaming, defecating and urinating, fainting in joy and ecstasy. All caused by strobe lights and trick-bass drum music.

I'd already developed severe epilepsy- or at least finally been diagnosed with it. I've had seizures since I was quite small. I could never stand twinkling Christmas lights, for instance, which even at 4 years old made me so dizzy and NERVOUS I would start screaming.
(A gentle car ride would calm me down wonderfully, as would a vacuum cleaner in the next room).

I've been diagnosed with Vertigo;
Jacksonian, Partial-Complex, Petit Mal Seizures;
Constant Body-Wide Migraine Statous including severe nausea and blinding light sensitivity;
Hemi-Plegic Migraine;
Cluster headaches.
All triggered by bright lights;
fast-moving and/or flashing lights;
certain musical or dancing rhythms;
carnival rides including especially the Tea Cups and the Tilt-A-Whirl;
smells including ammonia and Musk perfume;
among other triggers including pesticide exposure.

I spent two hours hiding in the church bathroom, and managed to get out of the life situation fairly soon. The COGIC congregation was wonderfully friendly to me at other services and events. My body just couldn't stand their Rapture service.

The last 10 years (I'm 57), I seem to have developed Grand Mal. My head rolls around like The Exorcist. My tongue falls between my jaws (No dentures). I fall asleep, wake up weak.

My state's Medicaid won't give me proper diagnosis, or even medication, due to simple underfunding and rationing.

My seizures are mostly caused by TV antenna signals, even if not badly pixelated. I must ration TV, and sometimes even computer. Although I still get crazy, miserable reactions from all the boom cars in my apartment complex, Punk and Rap both full of Trick-Bass.

These types of seizure-causing, Charismatic Religious services may bring joy to some people. I've even heard rumors of people taking Ecstasy and Coke or Crack, Speed, etc, to boost their spiritual high. One woman stated to me,

"I would be willing to faint and die at the altar, if only I could die and be in God's Spirit forever".

The ministers and leaders of these highly physically emotional Spirit services possibly do understand the science of light and music and even smells they utilize to cause their desired result- just as regular Catholics, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Lutherans, and Methodists, with their methods, understand how to bring simple peace and serenity to their congregations. Of course, most congregants, and even some leaders, prefer to think God is the only cause of what happens to them.

My friend is an Interpreter for the Deaf, whose job is to interpret at several Pentecostal and Spirit-type services through the week. She experiences severely disabling, blinding Ocular Migraine Auras and headaches, exacerbated, or maybe caused, by the overly-bright strobe lights at her job. She (and I) are also deeply affected by blinking fluorescent lights, especially Curly CFLs. She's constantly exposed to these lights at her M-F school interpretation job.

I spent plenty of time at Disco/Rock N Roll house parties in the 1970s, 80s. (No drinking- causes migraines, no drugs, just great, happy people). But I could never stand bars which played these same songs, since the Bass Boost was always turned up high, and made me "Nervous." Some of these clubs also had flashing colored Neon lights, with the speed turned up high. I got sick at America's Favorite Bar from the lights and music. Nauseated from dizziness.

I don't know enough to comment much about modern Orthodox/Hasidic Jewish services,
Druse or Sufi Islam services,
"Whirling Dervishes" (Isn't that Hindu?),
various Pagan rites, etc. I bet, at least in some cases, the same type of cathartic, soul-releasing effects may be brought about by certain methods such as strobe lights, thump music, thump dancing, and other effects, as occurs in Charismatic Christian rituals, or a 1990s Body-Slamming Punk Metal concert. While others like myself prefer a calmer type of religious joy.

(A PBS "Rick Steves" special, can't remember which country, portrayed a marvelous "Whirling Dervish" who slowly, steadily swirled and gyrated himself into a beautiful, deep, simple religious ecstasy. Calming for me to watch.)

As with a friend in White Dove, I wonder if some people already have Bi-Polar Mania, or seizures, or some neurological reaction which causes them to "Speak in tongues," have extra wiggly, shaky, excitable bodies, etc, that may make them feel more comfortable at ecstatic religious services or club parties, than at staid old sleepy services such as even Southern Baptist- which is not nearly as sleepy as some other Protestant services!
I myself like the "sleepiness," which relaxes my body and brain as well as medicine does.

If I broach the idea of "Seizures, or Mania" to certain people, they may even scream at me in denial.

"I'm just NERVOUS is why I'm wiggling and shaking and screaming at you! I need a church service!"
(That person HIT me while shaking and screaming.)

"I'm not babbling incoherently; I'm just speaking in tongues."
(Whether it's actually Bi-Polar word salad, or some type of seizure or neuro reaction.)

"No, don't let the Devil let you have seizures. God will heal you."
(This at a religious service which was rapidly worsening my seizures and Migraine.)

I guess giving medication to them is tantamount to taking away their religion.

To Each His Own.
I still think people should be taught what may happen to them at certain type of religious services, as well as these Rave, EDM, whatever, Pagan-type Club parties. Then let them make their own decisions, for themselves and for their minor children.

Peace,
StepStone/Stephanie :-)

Dear Rosemary,

Many thanks for taking the time to read and respond to our recently published article: Protocol for Healthy Habits Happy Homes (4H) Scotland: feasibility of a participatory approach to adaptation and implementation of a study aimed at early prevention of obesity.
We agree that obesity prevention could and should start as early as reasonably possible (pre-conception/ peri-conception as recommended by WHO ECHO). We also feel (as did WHO ECHO) that we need to continue prevention efforts well beyond infancy and toddlerhood, and if that is the case then we need to have some prevention programmes to offer beyond infancy and toddlerhood: 4H is one potentially useful candidate prevention programme. It is not a question of intervening before/during infancy or later, we need both, with 4H contributing to the early childhood segment of future programmes.
The maternal and infant nutrition framework in Scotland offers opportunity for a wide range of preventative work to address childhood obesity. Using NHS Tayside (where 4H Scotland took place) as an illustration, the Health Visitor and Family Nurse services hold UNICEF UK baby friendly Gold award, the local neonatal unit hold the UNICEF UK baby friendly award and recently the use and promotion of healthy start vouchers and the breastfeeding friendly Scotland logo has increased. There is a local specialist weight management service offering prevention approaches at tier 1 and management programmes at tier 2 and 3 for all children and young people (upto age 15.9years) and there is an emerging child healthy weight strategy document.
As mentioned, the experiences and learning that comes from work linked to such projects will be valuable as will new evidence gained from feasibility or definitive trials that are currently ongoing linked to obesity prevention interventions. Of particular interest, is the whole –system approach to obesity prevention that is underway e.g in London and Leeds.
We look forward to writing, with an aim to publish, our own small but important contribution to the evidence with an evaluation of 4H Scotland processes and outcomes in the near future. As authors, we are grateful to members of the pre-birth and early years groups from NHS Tayside (including infant nutrition coordinator), local authority, education and third sector within Dundee city and importantly the community workers and families who supported our feasibility trial. .

Regards,
Jenny Gillespie on behalf of the 4H Scotland study authors

We would like to take the opportunity to thank the author for their correspondence and critique of our paper.

In response to our conclusion about the “rarity” of the practice, the correspondence may be misleading. Our paper states “We found limited evidence in the research literature of the use of conversion therapies that aimed solely at suppressing or modifying what was considered by the therapist as abnormal gender identity”. Of course (as is the case for reviews of research into conversion treatments for LGB people), this does not presume that practices are not occurring in a wider context.

We would like to further state that as in all systematic reviews, the search strategy must be agreed before the search begins. We spent considerable effort in discussing search terms, and based our search on previous reviews of LGB people and conversion/reparative approaches. This basis did not dictate the only search terms used however; we also used further terms which we believed would increase the yield in papers, these included “reparative” “non-affirming” and “repair”. We also included terms such as “barring” to account for covert attempts at hindering transition.

We disagree that systematic reviews are counterproductive. Our aim was to assess how often and in what form conversion/reparative treatments for transgender and gender diverse people had been studied. We sought to examine critically any claims for effectiveness as well as understand the consequences of undergoing such treatments in terms of psychological health and well-being. We found no instance of a large cross-sectional or cohort design of people undergoing treatments and ended by suggesting the need for investigation of the experiences of transgender and gender non-conforming people at the population level. This is exactly the evidence the correspondent has suggested too. Out of interest, a study is currently underway at Coventry University, which fulfills our recommendation for further research (see: https://www.coventry.ac.uk/research/areas-of-research/innovative-researc...).

We also thank the author for contributing further discussion on Dr. Kenneth Zucker’s work and controversies. However, the other sources the correspondent cites were more at the level of discussion than data.

We thank the correspondent again for their thoughtful critique of our paper. No article is beyond reproach and/or scrutiny, and this correspondence enhances the discourse about conversion therapies in trans and gender diverse people.